SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

That doesn’t work for texts sent with imessages, though, does it? Since it sends over wifi?

Hi darkdusty I just wanted to send hugs im kind of going through similar with WH still in contact with OW.

I hope you are ok .

[This message edited by Kittycatkitty at 6:42 AM, Thursday, December 18th]

darkdustythoughts,

That doesn’t work for texts sent with imessages, though, does it? Since it sends over wifi?

That's right. And a number can be blocked, but can easily be unblocked when you leave the house and reblocked before you get home, and if they are imessages, they won't show up on text logs through phone company website.

Basically Apple has built a failsafe infidelity hiding system with the imessage feature.

*hard lessons learned...*

Brutal

If it would help you, the Life360 app with all the features turned on would track everything that phone does. She’s have to get a second hidden phone at that point.

She has location sharing enabled with both me and my mother, her phone and laptop are attached to my FindMy account, there's an AirTag in her wallet and a second one somewhere in the mess of her car, and I can see the GPS data from her car through its key app. Certainly she could get around that if she wanted to, but turning anything off would be suspicious and there is a high probability of her forgetting at least one of those things. We put them in place over the years for safety and convenience, without any protest from her. The problem is, she has hotel accomodations whenever she travels for work, so even if I can see that she is at the hotel, it's where she's supposed to be. I just can't be certain she's there alone. She is getting better about letting me know where she is going ahead of time, though, and she usually spends a lot of time calling and texting me after work. It doesn't prove anything, but it does make me feel better.

[This message edited by darkdustythoughts at 6:53 PM, Thursday, December 18th]

I used Dr Phone and dumped her ipad into a large text file. Then whipped through that piecing together what was going on. We changed her phone number after Dday. I also could dump and check her phone and look for remnants of the text messages. Did that for about 6 months after DDay. To this day I have access but I never look at it. I have her facebook password. But regardless if she really wanted to she could get around that.

Will look into that. Thanks.

KittyCatKitty, Flo is a period tracking app. Obviously no cause for alarm.

Is this the future you want?

I am 100% on the page that you simply let your wife know that her affair and the reluctance to block OM has completely 100% blown your ability to trust her. It’s not that you don’t want to trust her, but you simply can’t.
In some ways it’s like a fear of getting shocked when working with electronics. Like if you were adding outlets to your house and you only had basic DIY skills you should have a reasonable and logical fear of the wires you are dealing with. Even if your partner tells you they took the power off at the mains, it takes some time before handling exposed wires with comfort. Heck... professional electricians would probably do regular checks and still try to avoid exposed wires.

It’s the same with you. Even if the affair is over – because your wife/assistant says so/took the mains out – you are fearful. Even if the affair IS over /mains really out.

What is needed is some time before you have tested and verified the wires, socket after socket, are not live. The time that is needed, business trip after business trip, clean e-mails, accountability... before you get some trust-but-verify level trust for her.

This isn’t what you want. But it is the best you can offer after her affair.

So... I would simply let her know of your fear and your need for assurance. The fear when she is traveling, the fear when she is at work, at home... the constant fear. You recognize its not sustainable for the relationship but as-is then you can’t control it. Let her know that she can help you establish trust through accountability. If she can offer that then with time your will have less reason to distrust – and thereby build up trust.

Make it also VERY clear that each and every time there is a relapse – as in her responding to contact, searching for OM online, not letting you know of attempted contact... it erodes your will and belief that there is anything to save, and you don’t know if you have it in you to once again go through a d-day.

Make it also very clear to her that she CAN have OM or any other man she wants. You aren’t going to hold her back. But to do so she needs to let you know that this need or desire surpasses her need to be married to you. You would much more want to go through an amicable divorce now or in the next six months, rather than have to go through the pain of discovering a relapse in infidelity.

Btw- the comparison to the outlets? That’s because I’m changing some myself as an overconfident DIY. I test and verify each wire before starting on an outlet, and again if I walk away for more than a couple of minutes. Trust but verify...

I know it’s going to take some time for the fear to dissipate. Sometimes I wish I could fast forward some, though! WW has been pretty patient with the process so far. I hope that patience continues.

She was in a very unhappy mood for the past couple days, and it was making me uneasy. There are a lot of other stressors for her right now, but I worried there was something else going on. I brought up to her most of what you said, Bigger, and she said she understands completely. She assured me that she hasn’t said a word to Ap since she told him off 6 months ago, that she thinks very poorly of him and wants absolutely nothing to do with him, and that’s why she blocked him. She told me she thought he would have taken the hint after getting read receipts and no response, but apparently he is too thick for that. She agreed to let me know immediately if he tried reaching her through any other means.

[This message edited by darkdustythoughts at 5:17 PM, Saturday, December 20th]

Thanks I had a look and found out what it was so edited my comment but thank you

I really can sympathise with how you are feeling its like a constant state of hypervigalence.

The bottom line is that a person who is determined to cheat will find a way.

I thought my wife was pretty innocent and not of the mindset to carry on an affair for months but she did. For someone who forgets something within minutes she had no problem remembering to delete her sexting history just before she left work everyday. And it never showed up on our cell phone records, because as I learned, iPhone to iPhone texting does not get routed through your cellular carrier so there's no footprint. I got lucky that I followed my gut and checked her tablet which was synced to her phone while she was at work

ETA: You can enable a setting that forces all texting to go through your cellular carrier

There are so many messaging apps out there today that have secrecy built into them that it is now incredibly easy to conceal an affair

And another fun fact that I learned while doing an obsessive amount of research trying to figure out the "why" is that given the right set of circumstances damn near anyone will cheat

[This message edited by WB1340 at 4:21 PM, Monday, December 22nd]

You can enable a setting that forces all texting to go through your cellular carrier

I can suggest that to her and see how she responds, but as you said, there are so many other ways they could communicate if they want to, that there probably isn’t a point in enabling that setting.

I think that at some point, if we want to move forward with reconciliation, I have to believe the lack of evidence pointing to the affair being over. I won’t entirely dismiss warning signs of something being off again, but I will do my best not to allow my fear of being hurt again to color the flags redder than they are. My WW is definitely not mentally well, so there are many, many flags, but I know that she is trying to be better for me.

And another fun fact that I learned while doing an obsessive amount of research trying to figure out the "why" is that given the right set of circumstances damn near anyone will cheat

What sources did you come across during your research that lead you to this conclusion? I would love to believe that isn’t true, but I said to my wife after discovery of her cheating that I could never do what she did to someone I love. She simply reminded me that I cheated on my ex wife, which would make me a mad hatter, I guess. The idea that anyone could cheat is still a very hard and unsettling concept to swallow.

[Quote]The idea that anyone could cheat is still a very hard and unsettling concept to swallow.

Could and would are two different things. Anyone could cheat. I don't agree with the idea that anyone would under the right circumstances. I wouldn't. I never have, never even came close, while in a relationship with anyone, not just my H.

I'm almost 56 years old now and have been married for 25.5 years. I've been in plenty of situations when I could've cheated. I didn't. I have no desire to. I have never come across anyone I would even consider cheating with.

Maybe because my mother was a cheater who ripped our family apart, but I have always found it so disgusting. The thought of it makes me feel like vomiting. I can't imagine being physically intimate with someone and then coming home to my H, lying next to him in bed, kissing him

What sources did you come across during your research that lead you to this conclusion? I would love to believe that isn’t true, but I said to my wife after discovery of her cheating that I could never do what she did to someone I love. She simply reminded me that I cheated on my ex wife, which would make me a mad hatter, I guess. The idea that anyone could cheat is still a very hard and unsettling concept to swallow.

There's some heavy and sometimes passionate debate on this subject. With all of the reading and research I've done combined with my experience with my own wife, who NOBODY expected this from, its almost enough to get me to lean toward thinking anyone could cheat, provided just the right set of circumstances, person, and opportunity.

That said, on the flipside, I've been married for over 27 years, have had multiple opportunities over all that time, combined with plenty of alcohol, and managed to keep it in my pants. I've never so much as even kissed or seriously flirted back with anyone. Thinking about my wife was enough to make me not want to do something like that, so I really don't know. You'll get some very strong and heated pushback on the claim. It's not a get out of jail free card, that's for sure.

I was married for over 20 years before I cheated. The marriage was basically sexless, and many would classify my ex wife as emotionally abusive. When I think back on that time, I think that I didn’t know what love was supposed to be like. She made a lot of decisions without considering my feelings at all, often steamrolling me. There were nasty arguments if I protested. I worked myself to the bone so that she could have everything she wanted, and to provide for my family. At one point I was working three jobs to make ends meet, as she had decided to quit hers and go back to school.

I did much of the housework as well, at her request. Her line of reasoning was that if there was just less on her plate, she could "relax" enough for intimacy. I tried changing my body to look better for her. It was never enough. The only time she initiated was when she had gotten off her birth control without informing me, in order to conceive our two children. She even ridiculed me for wanting sex with her and tried to make me out to be some kind of pervert. I experienced a great deal of temptation and opportunity, but stayed faithful for those decades because I believed that I loved her, and that simply wasn’t how married men behaved. I clung to my integrity and sense of honor.

We tried marriage counseling a couple times, but she would attend a few sessions and then quit going because the counselor "made her feel like the bad guy." I didn’t want to divorce because I didn’t want to lose my children.

In my mid 40s, I sunk into a deep depression. Nothing gave me pleasure and I was angry constantly. My blood pressure was so high that it’s a miracle I didn’t keel over. I started staying late at work because I didn’t want to be home. I drank a lot and seriously considered suicide. I felt numb. I selfishly went onto a dating site and just to feel something. I didn’t expect it would go as far as it did, and when I was found out, it blew up my marriage. We promptly divorced.

Obviously, none of that excuses what I did, but it wasn’t until I experienced being cheated on myself that I understood the amount of damage I did to my ex wife. I feel immense shame about my behavior now. The way the media portrays infidelity fails to accurately convey the reality of it. It seems like most people are woefully unaware of its far-reaching effects.

I guess I am sharing all of this because it illustrates to me that circumstances can change people. What I have learned from experience and reading on the subject is that infidelity is usually a betrayal of one’s own values as much as it is betrayal of one’s partner. Maybe I am jaded, but it certainly lends me very little comfort or faith when considering the question of whether anyone could cheat.

If my WW could cheat, anyone can cheat.

End of discussion.

If my WW could cheat, anyone can cheat.

End of discussion.

I understand the sentiment. I really do, and for much the same reason. If you'd have asked me last year if my wife would ever cheat I'd have bet my life she wouldn't. I'd have bet my life in it. It's a good thing I was never presented with that bet because I'd be dead now...

My father was a serial cheater. When my mother caught wind he was sleeping with the whole neighborhood and got fed up, she cheated on my father with the bass player from his band. My sister is currently on her 6th marriage. My marriage went through a rough spot for quite a while. I was drinking a lot (10+ years sober now), there was no intimacy, we were arguing a lot, etc, etc. I've had a couple of girls make passes at me during those times.

One of those women in particular, who was was very attractive, offered to give me oral in the park across the street from the bar we were drinking at. It was late and I was smashed, but that offer sobered me right me up. I was like, "what am I doing here? If I accept this 'offer' it could destroy my marriage..." I politely rejected her and went home. She was also a co worker. I never spoke to her again after that.

Between FOO, the state of my marriage at the time, and alcohol, if anyone was primed to have an affair it was me. Somehow tho, I managed to stay out of trouble and remained faithful to my wife. Something that wasn't reciprocated 8 months ago, but I digress... The couple of things I did wrong in that situation were that I did flirt back a little bit at first, and I didn't tell my wife about it when it happened. I've since told my wife about it, and made sure to remind her of it after she cheated on me.

I think, maybe, it could be the case that anyone could cheat given the perfect storm (I'll be taking some heat for using that phrase, lol) of circumstances, person and opportunity, but some of us manage to stay on top of the weather forecast and avoid that perfect storm altogether. I think the people who manage to stay aware of their feelings and circumstances at all times will almost certainly never cheat. So while I think anyone could be capable of it, I also think there are plenty of people who will never, ever cheat in their lives because those people are self aware enough to never even put themselves into that position to begin with.

What really kills me is, things had calmed down a lot in our marriage. We weren't fighting at all until my wife's seizures returned. She was told no driving and put on an anti seizure med with a reputation for really screwing up a person's personality. There's even a term for it, "keppra rage."

That really killed her, but I refused to let her talk me into being okay with her driving. So we started arguing over that quite a bit, but aside from that, we really were getting along pretty well, and I really stepped up for her. I did all of the driving, went to all of her neurology appointments with her, and never once gave her any crap about it. I never even so much as rolled my eyes when she wanted to go somewhere. I'd just smile, grab the keys and say "let's go!" I went clothes shopping with her!

Still tho, she was pretty devastated to have her epilepsy rear it's ugly head again after having gone almost 25 years without a seizure. She lost her independence and was no longer safe to drive. Combine that with depression that's very common for epileptics, that evil new med she was put on, and a husband who wouldn't budge on the driving part helped create her perfect storm.

It changed her whole personality. She became aggressive, combative, and completely unreasonable at times. She was angry, upset, feeling unattractive and burdensome, and we hadn't been intimate for a long time. Partly due to side effects from an SSRI I was on. Enter "Mr wonderful," a coworker who is also epileptic, who swoops in with unrealistic levels of understanding, compassion, and compliments. They had their condition in common, and of course he ignored Dr's orders and drove despite the danger while she had this unreasonable, mean husband who refused to give in and just couldn't understand her the way Mr wonderful could...

She'd known him for a few years, but he didn't start putting the moves on her until earlier this year when she started that new med and was told she couldn't drive. She began venting to him about it, which didn't take long to turn inappropriate. He buried her with compliments and "understanding" and it wasn't long before they were flirting back and forth for a couple of months over fb chat. That led to a short lived physical affair with 3 separate trysts that lasted for 2 weeks until I caught on.

I was devastated. I thought our marriage was on an upswing until that happened. I'd quit drinking a long time ago and weaned myself off of the SSRI that was causing my issues with libido and ED (tho we still hadn't been intimate in a while). To say I was shocked and blindsided would be an understatement. No one who knows her would have seen this coming. No one. It really was a shock.

But yeah, the right set of circumstances, person, and opportunity combined with low self esteem, low self awareness, and more than a dash of selfish entitlement was all it took for my sweet, innocent, dependable wife to go off the rails. She was faithful for over 26 years before this happened. It's been over 8 months and I'm still somewhat in shock.

[This message edited by Pogre at 4:33 PM, Tuesday, December 23rd]

To continue this thought, my H was very angry w/ me for about 3 weeks prior to the affair. Because he made a choice one night to drink & drive (I wasn’t w/ him and it was the first & only time he did this). How he drive home in his condition w/ out an accident is a miracle.

Next day I didn’t yell. I didn’t cause a scene. I just said that he should consider alternate means of transportation if he’s going out and plans to drink alcohol. He willingly agreed.

End of story. Or so I thought.

But he started being shady and sneaking around and drinking & driving. Something he agreed not to do. And he would get angry at ME if I brought it up and pointed out this was something he agreed to.

Three weeks later he meets the OW in a bar and cue the start of the affair.

And to this day he swears one has nothing to do with the other.


It’s so obvious to everyone except him. I became someone who was his "mother" in that I was holding him to his word. And he didn’t like it and rebelled and had an affair and was planning to D me to be w/ the OW.

No shortage of reasons people cheat. I was the "mean" person who told him no and woukd not let him get away with sneaking behind my back to go out and drink w/ his friends and drive.